Curse

Rancour · Oct 27, 2005, 08:03 PM // 20:03

I think the polearm and hand-to-hand ideas are pretty good. I just wouldn't be able to find names for them because they're pretty specific.

My personal idea would be not to add new classes, but to make a specific name and extra skills for the different class combos already in the game.

For example. Say you made a warrior. You then go become a ranger sub. What are you? A Druid! Or Tribal Warrior, Shaman... etc. whatever floats your boat, the name doesn't matter much right now. Then, you are now a Druid. That means you get a new attribute line instead of the rangers Expertise which you lost when you picked warrior as primary. That new attribute would be Shapeshifting. That's my idea, it could be something else.

This would be the same with all the class combos. You pick a primary class and you get his primary attribute; you pick a sub-class and you get the new unique-attribute, which you only get since you picked that exact class combo. It would NOT matter wether you were ranger/warrior or warrior/ranger; you'd still be a druid.

I think that'd be great.

lyra_song · Oct 27, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

as ive said before in threads about professions, the professions in Guild Wars are vague. A Fencer class is too specific. Its essentially just 1 build.

NatalieD · Oct 27, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Not really... they're more brutesque than finesse by comparison.

Consider fencing styles... you'd have a variety of new sword types (Epee, foil, sabre classes perhaps?) which are single handed, yet because of the style you wouldn't be able to equip a shield. Your defense would be in the sword as well as the offense. However, you could carry an offhand item for other boosts. There would be no two-handed weapons for the class. Skills would emphasize speed, agility and accuracy, as well as defensive parrying, parry-riposte techniques.

It would be artful, if done right.

There are already riposte skills for sword warriors.

Epee and foil are the weapons of modern sport fencing, not real weapons for killing people with. And swashbucklers used shields - where do you think the "buckler" part of the name comes from?

Captain Krompdown · Oct 27, 2005, 08:14 PM // 20:14

Most people here are probably too young to remember how important it was to have a good BARD in The Bard's Tale trilogy. Guild Wars needs bards.

Any character classes that focus on music or the decoding of symbols would be a great addition. Those would be characters that it would be impossible to farm with, but would be ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for getting through the actual game and/or into opposing guilds' bases.

Bard and scribe (or whatever you want to call them). Those are my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestions.

And GW still has nothing to compete with The Dreamspell.

Somehow, I'm sure I'm the only one here who knows WTF I'm talking about.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 08:15 PM // 20:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by lyra_song

as ive said before in threads about professions, the professions in Guild Wars are vague. A Fencer class is too specific. Its essentially just 1 build.

Well, not really... warriors have axe, hammer and sword, no? Swordmen would have something the likes of duelist/fencer (foil and epee type weapons, penetrating attacks), swashbuckler (using cutlass style slashing weapons... wound inflicting attacks.. bleeding, deep wounds, etc) and something else creative. Vagueness can be added.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 08:18 PM // 20:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

There are already riposte skills for sword warriors.

Epee and foil are the weapons of modern sport fencing, not real weapons for killing people with.* And swashbucklers used shields - where do you think the "buckler" part of the name comes from?

I'm trying to work on an idea to create enough uniqueness to create a melee style different from warriors. Perfect historical accuracy does tend to take a backseat here... at least I've never heard of any historical classes that fought wearing nighties such as the female mesmers do. True, epee and foil are 'sport' today, but in game they can be effective.
Think outside the box!

As for warrior riposting... I have a hard time seeing a warrior perform a riposte effectively with a big, clunky sword. But here's a skill/concept that could overlap.

Rancour · Oct 27, 2005, 08:19 PM // 20:19

I don't see why you'd make a profession which was mandatory in order to complete the game. That's just ridiculous.

"You can make any team you like, with anyone you like, the catch is that you have to have a guy on the team who's a Bard."

A good profession, perhaps, but they should never make a profession that was essential to have in the party to complete the game. Imagine the outbreak of "Singing Bards needed for mission!" - spammers.

NatalieD · Oct 27, 2005, 08:23 PM // 20:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Captain Krompdown

Most people here are probably too young to remember how important it was to have a good BARD in The Bard's Tale trilogy. Guild Wars needs bards.

Any character classes that focus on music or the decoding of symbols would be a great addition. Those would be characters that it would be impossible to farm with, but would be ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY for getting through the actual game and/or into opposing guilds' bases.

Bard and scribe (or whatever you want to call them). Those are my off-the-top-of-my-head suggestions.

Are you suggesting a class that's underpowered in combat, but parts of the game just arbitrarily require there to be one in order to open a door or whatever? I can't begin to express how poorly I think of an idea like that.

Quote:

And GW still has nothing to compete with The Dreamspell.

Somehow, I'm sure I'm the only one here who knows WTF I'm talking about.

Could be. Care to explain what this Dreamspell you're talking about is? Google isn't turning up anything that looks relevant.

NatalieD · Oct 27, 2005, 08:25 PM // 20:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

As for warrior riposting... I have a hard time seeing a warrior perform a riposte effectively with a big, clunky sword. But here's a skill/concept that could overlap.

Like I said, they don't have the sword models to match their skills. But that's hardly a reason to develop a new class.

Maybe if you could explain more what differences there would be between the classes, other than appearance. I'm having a hard time seeing what makes one melee character "brutal" while another is about "finesse". I mean, damage is damage.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 09:04 PM // 21:04

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Like I said, they don't have the sword models to match their skills. But that's hardly a reason to develop a new class.

Maybe if you could explain more what differences there would be between the classes, other than appearance. I'm having a hard time seeing what makes one melee character "brutal" while another is about "finesse". I mean, damage is damage.

Yeah, it's still a mental work in progress, really... and it's tough to come up with novel ideas without letting other things from other games overtake the mental process. So....

Hmm...

Well, a primary attribute for the swordsman could be Reflexes. Every point in reflexes adds a base 1% chance to parry an attack and a base 1% increase in damage dealt using their specific sword classes. This would also be a good attribute to tie defensive stances (better use for 'parry', for example, would be as a stance offering X% chance to block physical attacks, with an elite stance Parry-riposte which offers same chance to block and each successful block returns y% of the damage to the attacker using melee weapons)...

Another attribute could be flat out Sabre, with it's cadre of slashing style attacks dealing degenerating wounds and damage (I know, warriors do this as well, but there's only so many styles of damage you can do...), as well as a defensive stance like "Wall of Steel", depicted by a rapid figure eight of the blade which increases the chance to block melee and projectile attacks yet reduces damage given while the stance is maintained...

Perhaps a Precision attribute, designed for the foil/epee style weapons, with skills that increase armor penetration as well as target specific area. Consider "Throat Strike".. if the attack hits, for x to y seconds the target enemy cannot speak. (Thus casters can't cast spells, or shouts cannot be done.) "Lung Stike" can have x% armor penetration and cause bleeding or deep wound for y seconds, or even due to the nature of the damage, result in a negative pip of energy instead. (I like this)

These are initial thoughts... instead of tearing it down, how would you improve on it?

Captain Krompdown · Oct 28, 2005, 12:37 AM // 00:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Are you suggesting a class that's underpowered in combat, but parts of the game just arbitrarily require there to be one in order to open a door or whatever? I can't begin to express how poorly I think of an idea like that.

Could be. Care to explain what this Dreamspell you're talking about is? Google isn't turning up anything that looks relevant.

LOL...I'm proposing a new class with music-based skills that would perform vital functions, yes. Something like...oh...i don't know...the way you need monks to heal or warriors to tank. I may be wrong, but ISN'T THAT THE POINT OF THIS THREAD?

I can just imagine you reacting to someone proposing a monk: "Are you proposing a character who is underpowered in combat and whose sole purpose is to tag along other characters and keep them alive?? Who would ever play THAT??!!!"

The question of whether or not they're underpowered in combat would be up to the developers. MONKS AREN'T UNDERPOWERED, and it's perfectly reasonable to imagine a Bard that isn't underpowered, either. I can't imagine a Bard being more underpowered in combat than, say, a mesmer. Since the Bards in The Bards Tale were notoriously drunk, here's the first Bard skill for you:

Imbibe/Boogie-down (adrenaline based...that's right...suck on that)
*Consume a twelver of Dwarven Ale on the spot
*For 25...45 seconds, all ally Bards sing twice as loud, play twice as fast.
*Damage received from incoming attacks is reduced by 1...4
*Gain 50...150 hp
*When spell expires, caster passes out for 5 seconds, during which time Armor - 25

Perhaps I overstated things when I said that they (or any other class) would be required. My bad. But, REALISTICALLY, the situation would be no different than it currently is with monks.

P.S. I think it would be a lot of fun to have skills named after songs everyone knows. Could start off with "Mary had a little lamb" and move up to "Stairway to Heaven," for example. Different kinds of music could be incorporated inthe different skill lines...with alcohol-inspired skills (such as "Imbibe" and "I love you, man!!!" (elite shout, gives instant morale boost...or whatever)).

P.P.S.: Since the different skill trees would be based on different kinds of music, the corresponding Bard outfits would be TOTALLY AWESOME.

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 12:48 AM // 00:48

Ok, see, that bard thing is not at all what you seemed to be saying before.

(How could monks possibly be considered underpowered in combat? Defense is a part of combat too...)

Captain Krompdown · Oct 28, 2005, 12:50 AM // 00:50

Here's the description of a Bard from one of the Bard's Tales manuals. I think it would be a fantastic addition.

Bard (BA): Bards are colorful characters. Most Bards are warriors who have given up the art of war for the art of magical music. This doesn't mean, however, that they've forgotten how to handle warrior weapons. But because
they're not true warriors, Bards don't the advantage of extra attacks during combat.

Because of their unique form of musical magic, it's nearly impossible to survive in the Realm without a Bard in your party. Most Bards always have a repertoire of seven songs, but must also have an instrument in order to perform. A Bard song played while exploring is long lasting and will resume after combat; even if other tunes were played during the fight. Songs performed during combat are brief -- lasting only one round -- and their effects differ from the noncombat versions.

Only one Bard tune can play at a time, and the tunes vary according to the difficulty of the dungeon. If a second tune is started by the same or a different Bard, the first song will end. A Bard can play as many tunes as he has experience levels before his throat dries; e.g., if your Bard has four experience levels, he'll be able to play four tunes from his repertoire. The only cure for a Bard's dry throat is a large tankard of ale from the nearest tavern. This is the source of one of the Realm's popular sayings, "When the
going gets tough, the Bard goes drinking..."

Would be a nice medieval addition to the game...no need to add "ninjas"...WTF is that?? I know, I know...Stairway to Heaven isn't very medieval. Fine. Throw that out the window if you want. Who really wants to see a fat, drunk Bard in Robert Plant's jeans, anyway?

Captain Krompdown · Oct 28, 2005, 12:53 AM // 00:53

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

Ok, see, that bard thing is not at all what you seemed to be saying before.

(How could monks possibly be considered underpowered in combat? Defense is a part of combat too...)

On the contrary. It's EXACTLY what I was saying before. You were just wanting something to yell about.

I'm not saying that Monks are underpowered. I'm saying that I could imagine you having a knee-jerk reaction and claiming that minks WOULD BE underpowered.

Bard songs could be defensively or offensively oriented, just like Monk prayers. It's a very general idea, but one that I think could be worked into the game in a variety of interesting ways.

Plus, the pattern of having songs that only play while exploring and stop during combat (and leave room for new songs to be played) would introduce a new pattern of "spell casting" -- something like an episodic enchantment. Since a Bard's ability to play songs would be finite, this might encourage people to group their enemies better and/or do more sneaking around potential fights...in order to save their Bard's voice.

Lord Iowerth · Oct 28, 2005, 01:06 AM // 01:06

I agree with the sentiment that there should be another melee class (as you can pretty much consider all the other classes but ranger to be "casters") ... I think something like a Martial Artist (hand-to-hand) would be ideal ... as you already have the "different types" of weapons on the Warrior class (axe/sword/hammer) and making an entire new class for a new type of weapon like a lance or polearm would be a bit of overkill, when it could just as easily be a new weapon for a warrior...

Although in some other games, the Monk is the martial artist (hah, as evidenced from the monk /dance) but i'd think they'd want to add an 8th type as well just to make it an even number. Then you could really have one of each class in 8 man PvP ^_^

Just my 2 cents worth, and no I don't have change ...

[edit] Oh, and they could also cause blindness by doing the 3 Stooges "two-finger eye poke" thing

cataphract · Oct 28, 2005, 06:46 AM // 06:46

imho, it would be much better to add a new playable race. the dwarves. i mean, humans are once again allied with the dwarves and those guys excel at melee. the only problem is making a female counterpart. i mean, who ever heared of a female dwarf?

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 07:06 AM // 07:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

i mean, who ever heared of a female dwarf?

...Tolkien?

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 07:12 AM // 07:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

These are initial thoughts... instead of tearing it down, how would you improve on it?

I've been saying negative things because, well, (a) I don't see the need for another kind of swordsman, and (b) I still don't know what this class of yours is supposed to be, other than "another kind of swordsman". The things you need to decide here are, like, what role in a party does a swashbuckler fill, why would I want to team up with a swashbuckler over a warrior and vice versa... that sort of thing.

cataphract · Oct 28, 2005, 07:23 AM // 07:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by NatalieD

...Tolkien?

and what does a female dwarf look like? i mean, even Pratchett can't tell them apart.

but i would like to see some trolls and trollops. especially trollpos.

NatalieD · Oct 28, 2005, 07:27 AM // 07:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by cataphract

and what does a female dwarf look like? i mean, even Pratchett can't tell them apart.

Pratchett's dwarves all look alike regardless of gender. That's not true of dwarves in many other fantasy settings, though. World of Warcraft has some pretty sexy female dwarves, for instance.